By Geoff Jordon.
Alexander Payne is an Oscar-winning screenwriter, responsible for such films as Sideways, About Schmidt and The Descendents. Back in 1997, however, when Creative Screenwriting was lucky enough to interview him, he had yet to achieve the fame he was later to enjoy. Here he talks frankly about his early career.
How did you sell your script for Citizen Ruth?
I went to graduate school at UCLA, came out with my Masters degree in 1990 and had a nearly hour-long thesis film that did well in the way you want your student film to do well. It played a lot of festivals, won a lot of awards, and got the attention of agents and producers in Los Angeles.
I never really had to promote it. If you make a decent product it all comes to you. On the strength of that, I got an agent and an offer from Universal to write and direct a film. So, I was offered movies; not very good ones, you know, but on a level maxed-out as far as what you could do coming right out of grad school.
Among the many producers I met was Cary Woods, who made an offer to “come and write and direct this movie for me.” Cary Woods is a former agent who takes credit for discovering Gus Van Sant. Actually, he saw a very tiny film Gus Van Sant made called Mala Noche and took the script for Drugstore Cowboy to Nick Wexler, who got it made. The guy claims to have good taste.
But I didn’t because I took this Universal deal. I wrote a script for Universal and they paid me a bunch of money and they hated it. They had said, “Write whatever you want. If we like it you can direct it.” The Velvet Coffin: you get a studio deal, they give you money, and you never make a movie. I mean, it’s great. They gave me money to live off for a couple of years after that.
The script Universal hated is about an old guy who retires and then realizes how much he’s wasted his life. I was going to rewrite that and try to raise a million dollars somewhere, but my buddy Jim Taylor and I got the idea for Citizen Ruth. This was in ’92. We started writing it, got together with another producer, and tried to shop it around.
Everyone said, “It’s just too hard. It involves abortion, etc.” At one point I’d nearly given up on it, thinking, “Fuck it! I’m gonna have to write something now that’s two people in a room, that I can shoot on 16mm reversal film in my living room, just to get something made!” Because otherwise I was gonna fuckin’ shoot myself, if I couldn’t shoot a film.
Then at lunch in Culver City I bump into this producer [Cary Woods] who three years ago had made me this other offer, and we schmooze….So the next day we go out to lunch… “Whatta ya got?” “Oh nothing, just this abortion comedy that everyone hates. You don’t want to read that.”
<div id="attachment_12487" style="width: 610px" class="wp-caption aligncenter"><img aria-describedby="caption-attachment-12487" class="size-full wp-image-12487" src="http://creativescreenwriting.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/citizen-ruth-2.jpg" alt="Laura Dern as Ruth Stoops in Citizen Ruth" width="600" height="338" srcset="https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/citizen-ruth-2.jpg 600w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/citizen-ruth-2-150x85.jpg 150w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/citizen-ruth-2-250x141.jpg 250w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/citizen-ruth-2-500x282.jpg 500w" sizes="(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px" />Laura Dern as Ruth Stoops in Citizen Ruth</div>
Are you serious? That’s how you pitched it?
“Yeah, you know, it’ll be just like all the other abortion comedies.” So he called up my agent, got it from him, read it over the weekend, and on Monday said, “Let’s make it.” It took a long time—another year and a half—to get the thing made. It’s been a hard sell.
You’ve written a couple of scripts set in Omaha, Nebraska. Why?
Because I kind of “get” Omaha’s world. If you’re going to make movies in whatever country you’re in, you want to somehow “capture” it. It’s kind of a cliché that early in your career you always go to your roots. It’s all about what you know, or think you know, even if you don’t. I just like Omaha.
I’ve always lived here. My grandparents were here; my father was here. My whole life has been here. Even when I left to go to college at eighteen, I’ve always come back here. So, there’s a kind of constant thread that now, as I’m starting to make movies, it’s kind of fun to go back.
Besides writing about Omaha, why did you choose the subjects of abortion, homelessness and drug addiction?
It’s not really the subject. I couldn’t have cared less about doing something involving the abortion world. I’m not terribly interested. But the story and the characters lent themselves to that.
Citizen Ruth was partially based on an article we read in a newspaper and we just started embellishing it. It just kind of came out. Jim Taylor and I have a real weakness for realistic, pointed comedy.
<div id="attachment_12483" style="width: 610px" class="wp-caption aligncenter"><img aria-describedby="caption-attachment-12483" class="size-full wp-image-12483" src="http://creativescreenwriting.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/citizen-ruth-3.png" alt="Laura Dern as Ruth Stoops in Citizen Ruth" width="600" height="338" srcset="https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/citizen-ruth-3.png 600w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/citizen-ruth-3-150x85.png 150w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/citizen-ruth-3-250x141.png 250w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/citizen-ruth-3-500x282.png 500w" sizes="(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px" />Laura Dern as Ruth Stoops in Citizen Ruth</div>
I don’t quite understand how a script with this content would come across as funny.
Comedy means a million different things. Some people could watch the film and not laugh at all. That would make me happy.
It seems like such a serious film.
It is very serious.
So the comedy comes from exaggerated absurdity which counterpoints the seriousness?
Humor comes from the most painful situations you can think of. If comedy is not based in pain, then it’s not really funny. Who laughs harder than people at a wake? You know at the meal you start laughing about things you remember and you hurt so much, but you laugh so hard and it’s great.
In this movie Ruth slugs a kid, huffs paint while she’s pregnant, says very vulgar things, and is unrepentant about any of it. And she’s funny. But then again, what is a sympathetic character? Or does she just have to be interesting?
Is Alex in A Clockwork Orange sympathetic? I don’t know. Is Michael Corleone sympathetic? I don’t know, but you’ll watch him do anything because he’s so interesting.
<div id="attachment_9591" style="width: 610px" class="wp-caption aligncenter"><img aria-describedby="caption-attachment-9591" class="size-full wp-image-9591" src="http://creativescreenwriting.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/godfather.jpg" alt="Al Pacino as Michael Corleone in The Godfather" width="600" height="338" srcset="https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/godfather.jpg 600w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/godfather-150x85.jpg 150w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/godfather-250x141.jpg 250w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/godfather-500x282.jpg 500w" sizes="(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px" />Al Pacino as Michael Corleone in The Godfather</div>
How do you think you did as a first-time director?
I did okay. I got it all done. I got some funny stuff and I had a lot of fun.
Do you see yourself more as a writer or a director?
Probably a director who writes. But, I’d really call myself a “filmmaker,” which includes writing, directing, and editing. I want to do all three so the final product is consistent.
So you have ultimate control over your art?
I don’t look at it in terms of, “I want to have control over it.” That’s just what I want to do.
How much does the producer come into that? Being the funding source, etc.?
My producer never told me anything about the script, never said to change a word. I had a very good experience, very little artistic interference.
How do you feel about the democratization of the filmmaking process?
Hey, Hoop Dreams was shot on Hi 8. To me, the cheaper means of production is what empowers people to make films.
<div id="attachment_12484" style="width: 610px" class="wp-caption aligncenter"><img aria-describedby="caption-attachment-12484" class="size-full wp-image-12484" src="http://creativescreenwriting.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/hoop-dreams.jpg" alt="Arthur Agee in Hoop Dreams" width="600" height="338" srcset="https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/hoop-dreams.jpg 600w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/hoop-dreams-150x85.jpg 150w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/hoop-dreams-250x141.jpg 250w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/hoop-dreams-500x282.jpg 500w" sizes="(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px" />Arthur Agee in Hoop Dreams</div>
I’ve even heard of people using those old Fisher Price “tape” cameras.
Yeah. In fact, I want one. It’s supposed to have a great look. They don’t make ‘em anymore. You can record a video image on the cassette tape and it’s supposed to look great.
I think it’s revolutionary that when we grew up, only a select few had the resources to make films and now literally anyone has access to the means.
Look, a guy who worked as an extra came up to me after the wrap party and said, “I wanna be a filmmaker too. What should I do? I’m stuck in TV.” I just said, “Don’t tell me your medical problems, pal. No excuses. Make a film. And you have to be free to make a bad one.” I said, “Look at this motherfucker who made a film for $23,000 in his 7-11… Just carve it out! If you don’t have the wherewithal to make a feature, make a short. If it sucks? Great! Who cares? You made a film. Just do it. On weekends, with short ends, with 16mm reversal film, on Super 8, Hi 8.”
Like I said, Hoop Dreams was shot on Hi 8. There are no excuses any more. You have to have the freedom not to fear failure, but welcome it. More often than not you don’t fail.
<div id="attachment_7181" style="width: 610px" class="wp-caption aligncenter"><img aria-describedby="caption-attachment-7181" class="size-full wp-image-7181" src="http://creativescreenwriting.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/clerks.png" alt="Brian O'Halloran as Dante Hicks and Jeff Anderson as Randal Graves in Clerks" width="600" height="338" srcset="https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/clerks.png 600w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/clerks-150x84.png 150w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/clerks-300x169.png 300w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/clerks-500x281.png 500w" sizes="(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px" />Brian O&#8217;Halloran as Dante Hicks and Jeff Anderson as Randal Graves in Clerks</div>
Did you feel that way all along, even before you got connected?
No, most of my time was spent overcoming depression.  
Prozac really changed your world?
No. The weird thing about making a film is that on alternate days you believe you’re either Orson Welles or you’re the most talentless piece of shit on the planet. You believe both with equal conviction, so you have no perspective at all. You’re just groping in the dark.
This interview first appeared in Creative Screenwriting Volume 4, #3, 1997
Featured image by Merie W. Wallace.
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<a href="http://creativescreenwriting.com/a-look-back-on-sideways/"><img class="alignright size-thumbnail wp-image-12467" src="http://creativescreenwriting.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sideways5-150x94.jpg" alt="sideways5" width="150" height="94" srcset="https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sideways5-150x94.jpg 150w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sideways5-250x156.jpg 250w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sideways5-500x313.jpg 500w, https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/cswcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sideways5.jpg 600w" sizes="(max-width: 150px) 100vw, 150px" /></a>If you enjoyed this article, don&#8217;t miss <a href="http://creativescreenwriting.com/a-look-back-on-sideways/">A Look Back on Sideways</a>, an interview with Alexander Payne and Jim Taylor.

“You’re just groping in the dark.” Alexander Payne on Screen...

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