Lilla and Nora’s most recent TV credit is Poker Face, a mystery project that was circulating around time for some time in search of the perfect showrunner.

Poker Face

Lilla and Nora Zuckerman are credited with showrunning the immensely popular Poker Face, starring the immensely talented Natasha Lyonne as Charlie Cale. We asked them about their initial conversations with creator Rian Johnson to realize his whodunnit vision. Ironically, Rian was casting another whodunnit film in his Knives Out series.

“When we were first approached for the potential of having this showrunning job, we were given this pilot. It was a top secret pilot that self-destructed in forty-eight hours. Even our agents weren’t allowed to read it,” recalls Lilla.

She and Nora read it over and over again to prepare for these pitch meetings which would hopefully give them an edge in showrunning the TV show. “We had a series of meetings that started with the podcast, the studio, the network, and finally, we met Rian.” At that point the writers had a very strong vision of what they wanted the show to be; a vision Rian Johnson fortunately agreed with.

“It was the best first date you’ve ever been on in your life where we came in with a really strong POV of the style, tone, rhythm, structure, and the kind of worlds we wanted to be in. We pitched him a couple of episode ideas. We just took a big swing,” Lilla elaborates.

The Zuckermans advise for writers to take big creative swings whether it’s an open writing assignment, a showrunning job, an adaptation, or an original piece. You want to be remembered by producers even if things don’t work out as initially planned.

Charlie Cale (Natasha Lyonne) Phot courtesy of Peacock

“When we take these meetings, Nora and I do a ton of prep work,” states Lilla, especially for pitch meetings. “We go in there and give a fully baked pitch of what we want to do on the show. Sometimes it’s definitely not what they want. And sometimes it’s exactly what they want.”

Lilla and Nora confess they were the dark horses of the showrunning race on Poker Face. “We love mysteries.” We thought, “Let’s just have a fun conversation with Rian about the possibilities of the show. When we ended the meeting, I said, ‘If nothing else, we had an amazing meeting with Rian Johnson who had also read our stuff and loved it. He said wonderful things about our writing. I’m just going to mark this as a win,‘” adds Lilla. Every high-level industry connection has value.

What Makes A Writer Stand Out?

A writer’s voice is a writer’s signature stamp on their work – something that identifies them to the industry. There is a uniqueness to their worldview and they way they express themselves that makes people take notice.

“I don’t know if I could necessarily define exactly what our voice is, but I know that I can hear a writer’s voice when I read it. There’s a wonderful quote from Scott Frank who said he could read in a script if the writer has control of the narrative,” muses Lilla. It lets the reader know if they’re in good hands and if the writer may be someone they want to work with.

“If the writer’s sitting behind the wheel of a car, I don’t know where the car is going, but do they know what they’re doing? Do they have control of the car? And I hope that our voice says, we have control of your experience that you’re going to have,” she ponders.

The driving metaphor is apt because a reader can tell whether the script’s in trouble or not in a few seconds. You have a gut instinct whether you’ll reach your destination. It’s the difference between a reader turning the page and being tossed in the NO pile.

Put Your Story Into  A Box

What separates the good writers from the great is an existential question most writers ask themselves as they work their craft muscles. “I think a lot of writers approach storytelling through character most of the time,” asserts Lilla.

“Of course, you must have interesting characters. My theory is that a character is only as interesting as the box you put them in. And if you cannot build a good box, you’re not going to have a story,” she adds. “Nora and I like to build very tricky boxes. You put a really cool, interesting, complex character, or somebody you think is a banal character, in a really cool box, all of a sudden your story is going to come alive.”

“I would urge other writers not to just design a character, but to design a box and make sure that those two fit (or don’t fit) together in a really compelling way.” This will make your writing pop.

“A box is the conflict and challenge of the story and makes the characters choose, not between a right decision and a wrong decision, but between two wrong decisions.” This becomes a dilemma in which the character must make the least desirable decision. Not only does this approach drive the plot, it also adds layers to and enriches a character.

It’s also important to decide what set of circumstances can you build around this character to increase desperation, drama, heightened risk, and make them do things that are outside of their comfort zone. Build the labyrinth for them to run through. Build the gauntlet. Then you can put the dowdy housewife, the office drone, or the high-powered politician into that labyrinth and watch them.”

Focus on attitude more than what’s happening in the story. “You really need to push the story and pack it with conflict, changes, excitement, and energy early on,” states Nora. Don’t rely on the belief that a reader will read your script to the end where the best part may be.

When writers are completing their pilots, many write the big action scenes towards the end. “A TV pilot has to propel, in theory, many hours of television after it. Path as much as you can into that first hour. Tell as much of the story as you can, but then also, hook me. Take me on this journey for many seasons.”